Rebalancing 3.0

Avatar Hey there! It’s been a long time since we last talked about the rebalancing (previous article). But it is right in front of our doors, as we will start with the implementation of the first things soon (the first update will only affect units and researches; special buildings will come later). Keep in mind that we will run a proper test on the beta world prior to putting these changes to the live worlds.

All things that have been changed compared to the last update are marked in green.

So here it is, the full list of changes:

Units

Land units:

Unit Changed value Old Value New Value
archer Archer
Blunt defense 6 7
Distance defense 12 13
horseman Horseman
Attack 55 60
catapult Catapult
Population 15 10
Speed 1 2

Ships:

Unit Changed value Old Value New Value
transportboat Transport Boat
Transport Capacity 20 26
trireme Trireme
Attack 180 250
Speed 9 15
Wood Costs 2000 2200
Stone Costs 1300 1600
Silver Costs 900 1200

Instead of removing the Fire Ship (don’t confuse this with the Light Ship) we will keep it in the game for now – due to community request.

Mythical units:

Unit Changed value Old Value New Value
hydra Hydra Wood Costs 5400 6750
Stone Costs 2800 3500
Silver Costs 3800 4750
Favor Costs 400 300
Attack 1000 1310
Sea Defense 715 1400
erynies Erinyes
Wood Costs 2500 3300
Stone Costs 5000 6600
Silver Costs 5000 6600
Favor Costs 480 330
Attack 1210 1700
Blunt Defense 688 460
Sharp Defense 688 460
Distance Defense 895 595
manticore Manticore Wood Costs 4400 5500
Stone Costs 3000 3750
Silver Costs 3400 4250
Favor Costs 405 270
Attack 945 1010
harpy Harpy Wood Costs 1600 2000
Stone Costs 400 500
Silver Costs 1360 1700
Favor Costs 130 85
Attack 266 295
Speed 25 28
cyclop Cyclop Wood Costs 2000 3000
Stone Costs 4200 5000
Silver Costs 3360 4000
Favor Costs 360 240
Attack 756 1035
Blunt Defense 945 1050
Distance Defense 1310 1450
minotaur Minotaur Wood Costs 1400 2500
Stone Costs 600 1050
Silver Costs 3100 5450
Favor Costs 202 180
Attack 450 650
Blunt Defense 675 750
Sharp Defense 300 330
Distance Defense 560 640
centaur Centaur Wood Costs 1740 2300
Stone Costs 300 400
Silver Costs 700 900
Favor Costs 100 70
Attack 156 134
Blunt Defense 150 195
Sharp Defense 450 585
Distance Defense 60 80
cerberus Cerberus Wood Costs 1250 1950
Stone Costs 1500 2350
Silver Costs 3000 4700
Favor Costs 230 180
pegasus Pegasus Wood Costs 2800 4000
Stone Costs 360 1300
Silver Costs 80 700
Favor Costs 180 120
Blunt Defense 900 750
Sharp Defense 250 275
Distance Defense 300 275
medusa Medusa Wood Costs 1500 1100
Stone Costs 3800 2700
Silver Costs 2200 1600
Favor Costs 210 110
Blunt Defense 625 480
Sharp Defense 435 345
Distance Defense 375 290
griffin Griffin Wood Costs 3800 4100
Stone Costs 1900 2100
Silver Costs 4800 5200
Favor Costs 250 230
Attack 860 900
Blunt Defense 240 320
Sharp Defense 270 330
Distance Defense 100 100
Speed 20 18
calydonianboar Calydonian Boar Wood Costs 2800 2900
Stone Costs 1400 1500
Favor Costs 110 120
Attack 250 180
Blunt Defense 450 700
Sharp Defense 950 700
divineenvoy Divine Envoy Attack 35 45
Favor Costs 15 12
Blunt Defense 20 40
Sharp Defense 20 40
Distance Defense 20 40

Researches

Research
Future functionality
diplomacy Diplomacy Chance for farming village resistance is lowered by 10%.+10% resources for looting and plundering.20% lower mood requirement in order to trade with a farming village.
espionage Espionage A sent spy receives an additional 20% silver coins.A town loses 10% less silver after an enemy espionage.
cryptography Cryptography Will be removed due to the changes on Espionage.
breakthrough Breakthrough The number of ships that can break through successfully is increased to 45%.(The standard chance without this technology will be 15%)
meteorology Meteorology Changes position in the academy and will be available in the second column.
architecture Architecture Costs of Architecture will be changed: 5.000 Wood, 4.000 Stone, 3.000 Silver, 8 Research PointsEffect: 10% less resource costs and 10% less construction time for all buildings.
buildingcrane Building Crane Will be removed due to the changes on Architecture.
cityguard City Guard Changes position in the academy and will be available in the first column.
shipwright Shipwright Changes position in the academy and will be available in the fifth column.

New technologies (will be released after introducing the hero feature):

Research
Functionality
Life Guards Heroes in this town have their defense values increased by 50%.
Standards Heroes who are attacking from this town have their attack values increased by 50%.
Teaching Parlor For every 10 coins invested into a hero’s training who is assigned to this town, he/she will receive 2 additional coins for training.

Special Buildings

And remember: Changes to the special buildings will be implemented at a later date compared to the changes of units and researches. πŸ˜‰

Special Building
Future functionality
theater Theater Owning a theatre will passively reduce the duration of all celebrations by 20% and it will reduce the costs of the city festival to these values:12.000 Wood, 15.000 Stone, 12.000 Silver.(Mind that the Theatre Play as a standalone celebration will be removed due to this change)
library Library Will grant 24 additional research points.
lighthouse Lighthouse +20% speed for ships.
War Council +10% attack power for all units in that town.
oracle Oracle Will be removed due to the introduction of the War Council.
statue Divine Statue Adds a cumulative +10% favor production bonus to the God in that city.
trade_office Merchant Shop You will be able to setup a target city and a storage threshold. As long as the resources exceed that threshold, the Merchant Shop will automatically send 1000 units (Speed 1) of each resource to the target city once per hour. These resources will not count against the common market capacity and they will travel much faster.

 

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Posted in Game Design
61 comments on “Rebalancing 3.0
  1. Avatar Mim le Fay says:

    “Instead of removing the Fire Ship (don’t confuse this with the Light Ship) we will keep it in the game for now – due to community request.”

    First of all, I have to say to you: Thank you so much!

    And now: To all the glorious Grepolis-Players,

    due to certain circumstances eliminating the bugs, up to this time, the fire ships can prevent the colony ships from landing.
    Since the fire ships are destroying every warship 1 on 1- it doesn’t matter, whether you are a premiummember or not- you can now build a fireship for defending or destroying a Tireme, a Bireme or a Lightship. Please keep in mind, that’s it not necessary to possess a premiumaccount therefore. On the other hand, if you are the attacker, it can be helpful to choose biremes for attacking, because they are not as expensive as biremes or tiremes.
    The fire ships usually destroy warships one on one. Due to my opinion, it will be a big chance for the future to create a more interesting gaming experience, because fire ships are always offering the opportunity for defending the colony ships during the period of last attack and colony attack.

  2. Avatar Draqone says:

    Wooohooooo. Totally love the changes, especially to Triremes.

    About the researches I can’t say much, not enough experience with heroes, but while we are putting in all that work into the mythical units, there is still a slight issue that needs to be addressed in my humble opinion.

    The hard cap on Favor which doesn’t increase as you own more cities will not workk very well with the new Divine Statue. I’d propose adding in a new research along with the Special Buildings rebalance:

    Incense (8 research points)
    For every 5 temple levels in this town your total favour storage for the God you worship is increased by 2.

    This would theoretically mean someone with 250 cities and all temples built to lvl 25 could double his Favour storage for each god but of course usually we’d see much lower values.

    The purpose of this research would be to make it easier to manage favor as your empire grows and to make the Library useful. What’s more important it’d allow easier production of the now-buffed Mythical units and would further enrich the gameplay as mythical unit armies become more prevalent.

    • Avatar Marcel Zons says:

      Interesting idea, it is at least worth thinking about it. πŸ™‚ But we still need to be careful with the favor storage, as it can lead to certain problems when increasing it. πŸ˜‰

      • Avatar Odol110 says:

        What are those problems? Don’t be so mysterious ;p

        • Avatar Marcel Zons says:

          Well, for instance:
          A higher favor storage will allow you to use some rather powerful spells in quick succession!

          The problem arises for different aspects of the game if you increase the storage: for resources, for inventory-items, for favor etc.

          The higher the storage, the less planning is needed.

          • Avatar Draqone says:

            I agree it needs to be implemented carefully, however Favor is the only resource that does not scale with the income.

            Resources scale, the more mines you have, the more Warehouses you have.

            Inventory doesn’t scale since quests don’t scale.

            Favor scales up to a certain point (1 to 5 cities each with a different god) but later does not scale. My idea aims to remedy that problem. Lets be honest, 1 Earthquake when someone has 50 cities is nearly nothing.

  3. Avatar butEhh says:

    Its really good in general im kind of happy…
    but you guys really ware fucked up if you ware thinking about Pegasus NO ONE will build this units anymore you can even cancle it.
    otherwise i have to hide this use tape on my display, this is for sure not good for my heart…

    come on.. its lot more expensive and it even lose a lot of defense for same amount of people, it was not one of best units befor the changes. but now its a mess-unit.. almost Minotaur is a better defend unit

    • Avatar Draqone says:

      A minotaur needs ships. Unless they make it grow wings.

      Thinking about it, a minotaur with wings is an incredible idea and is going to be my next suggestions. I always wanted to see pigs and cows fly.

      • Avatar butEhh says:

        Sure i dont want a cow with Wings but dont you share my opinion about Pegasus Draqone? Compare Pegasus before and after..
        it will be a very very absolutly Global Total weak and expensive defend unit.

        oracle says thousand will quit Grepolis if you deface Pegasus

  4. Avatar Ethanthrower says:

    Is there a release date?

    • Avatar Marcel Zons says:

      No, we can’t say for sure on when we will have the time to implement this.

      • Avatar RandomStranger says:

        Marcel, I have been holding off on playing Grepolis until the rebalancing is done. The sooner this happens the better. Don’t care less about other changes. You have no idea how boring it is when all people do is make light ships and slingers all the time because mathematically they are best bang for buck. Thank you for trying though. But please, let’s get it out there.

  5. Avatar gianmarieddu says:

    good evening.

    excuse me for my english, i know is really bad, i’m italian ehehheheheeheh

    well, my opinion i that the change of speed of the triremes is a powerfull bullshit (may i use the “bullshit” word in a public forum? i hope)

    in fact, with this changes a BIG alliance with 3/400 members (most of this accounts are MULTIACCOUNTS of the same two or three players) with varius confederations, can have now MORE possibility of:

    tombing a polis: in the same time, i can use the double of polis for defensive naval support, if these are simply full of trireme

    attackin’ a player: in the same time, i can use the double of polis for navals attack.

    well..i think you are only helping the cheaters and the sgolders…not the normal powerfull WARRIORS in the servers (but that don’t use gold)

  6. Avatar TemiTa says:

    What happens with my Oracle?

    • Avatar Marcel Zons says:

      We are still debating whether we just remove those buildings, funding back your occupied population … or if we exchange the oracle with the war council.

      • Avatar TemiTa says:

        Just removing it doesn’t seem very fair to me cause it is still a lot of secources the build one. Exchanging seems like the best option to me but you deside over your own game πŸ™‚

  7. Avatar mungus1974 says:

    Why did you change originaly planned speed on Triremes?Now they are waste again.No good player will build them

    • Avatar Lehran says:

      Just calculate a little bit and you will see that Triremes are still gamebreaking.
      You have to mention that you can use them both in defence and offensive. So instead of having 1 city to defend and 1 city to attack you have 2 cities to attack and defend. If you need defence, you can also use units that were build for a attack (Triremes). And if you aren’t attacked, you can use your def Units (Triremes).
      All in all: Having the best speed of all ships is not the striking point. The striking point is being acceptable in both ways of fighting( off and def).

  8. Avatar KingJamesTheFirst says:

    I think the majority of these changes look really good. However the changes to Pegasus seem awful. The other mythical units are getting buffed to be more useful, why is Pegasus being made less useful? Currently they are useful as a flying, rapid-deployment LDU defense. With these changes they will be pointless. I was about to start building a Pegasus defense city, but I’m going to scrap those plans if these is what they will become. Seriously, if your goal is to increase the usefulness and and frequency of myth units in this rebalance, why decrease this one?

    • Avatar Marcel Zons says:

      If you calculate their defense ratio (that means dividing their overall defense by their consumed population), Pegasi are just slightly weaker than other defending mythical units. This is because they are very fast and can fly.

      We strongly believe that they maintain their right to exist, but should be used when necessary and not as a universal defense unit. πŸ˜‰

      • Avatar Hasan says:

        Pegs lost a lot of value when cerbs were introduced. This change will remove them off the radar comepletely. No one is really bothered about speed, when you stack your polis with 30k troops…

    • Avatar butEhh says:

      Oh KingJamesTheFirst you are so right, James for President long live the Pegasi.. see my entry with the calculation its horrible.

      KingJames if we dont have success here im thinking about, we have to sign up some Chinese people to clone whole grepolis site and setup our own super Pegasi settings. and go online with http://www.Pegapolis.com if it runs well we will hire Marcel but dont give him the access to the Pegasus settings πŸ˜‰

  9. Avatar mungus1974 says:

    What is the percentage of Triremes against LS and Biremes used in the game so far?I bet they are less then 5%.If you think those changes on them gonna make any difference you are so wrong.
    The good things:
    Manticore more attack, less favor.Cerberus less favor.Harpy more attack and less favor.Archers more distance and blunt defense.Horses more attack.Catapults from speed 1 to 2 and cost only 10 population from 15.
    Buildings:
    Divine Statue:Adds a cumulative +10% favor production bonus to the God in that city.
    War Council:+10% attack power for all units in that town.

    The rest is just another waste.

    • Avatar Lehran says:

      Why should this be good?
      You increase the power of horsemen and also increase the power of the counter-unit Archer, what makes it nearly to a zero-sum situation (with slightly advantages for the horseman).
      Divine Statues are so unbelievable overpowered that even a Game Designer said in the German community that they think of limiting its number.

      • Avatar Theseus Aethrason says:

        What you say about horsemen and archers makes no sense. Archers are not a counter-unit to horsemen, in fact they have the weakest defense against horsemen.

  10. Avatar chalna says:

    i’d assume that the same is true of the meudusa changes?

  11. Avatar butEhh says:

    Is it possible that you release a Simulator (like inGame) with 3.0 Balancing..

    so all of you can really see what will happen when Pegasus got attacked

    37 Erinyes will Kill about 230 Units Means
    920000 Wood
    299000 Stone
    161000 Silver

    50 Erinyes will Kill 310 Pegausu

    With todays setting 50 Erinyes will Kill 185 Pegausu
    diffrence is 125 Pegausu!!! (almost a full Polis)

  12. Avatar maleda says:

    i’d like to understand the reason behind this changes. You say rebelancing, so you think the game is not well-balanced. Where?
    conquests are too easy ? conquests are too hard ? players make love instead of war(XD)?

    • Avatar Marcel Zons says:

      Some things have been so weak that they simply have not been used. If you offer 100 people 2 different kinds of pie and 99 of them take pie “A”, then pie “B” seems to taste pretty awful and should be replaced by something which more people would like to eat, right? πŸ˜‰

      What I want to say is: some units / researches / special buildings just haven’t been a viable option since other game elements have been simply more powerful in almost every situation.

      We could either go for the route of removing all unnecessary elements, but since we would like to keep the variety Grepolis offers, we prefer to make some adjustments. πŸ˜‰

      • Avatar butEhh says:

        So Pegasus will gonna be a pie β€œW” like worst and no one would like to eat anymore

      • Avatar maleda says:

        early assumption: i only play on siege server, in italy siege is becoming boring: no more strategy, only a strength test. Defender has too many advantages. Alliances have no incentive to combat each other, so you always see two big groups of alliances, very few conquest, and a lot of bunkered city.

        When i sow this thread with the word rebalancing, i hoped you would resolve this problem, but i was in error πŸ™

  13. Avatar Rodrigo Olsen says:

    U guys are going to RUIN the game! The most impressive mistake is the extra 10% cumulative favour production! So if i have 30 cities i will be producing 300% extra favour! Maticores will cost half the favour and be even stronger! There will be people building a mati nuke every 5 hours, no one will need a wall or lss no more, holding a siege will be impossible!

    • Avatar Marcel Zons says:

      There will be a limit for the amount of statues that will work for each God.

      • Avatar Lehran says:

        No other Buildung or unit or research is so strong that it has to be limited. Don’t you see this as a sign against the big chances to the Divine Statue.

  14. Hi, i would recomend following values for Pegasus in relation to the other Mythical units

    Blunt Defense 790
    Sharp Defense 310
    Distance Defense 480

    Wood Costs 3800
    Stone Costs 1300
    Silver Costs 800
    Favor Costs 160

  15. Avatar butEhh says:

    Vote about Pegasus has been Started:
    http://pickapoll.com/poll/pegasus-bi175

    thx pedros

  16. Avatar Gil-galaad says:

    Hi!

    I’ve just a quick question about the reduced speed of rhe triremes. I may already be asked above but i didn’t find any answer.
    The main use of triremes nowadays is to slow down a full light ship. But with this new speed triremes will be faster than light ship wich is very bad in my opinion. Is it possible to take into account this remark and modify the speed of those ships to maitain the fact that a light ship is still faster than a trireme.

    Thank you for your answer and sorry for my poor english. Hope it was understainable

  17. Avatar lagolas123 says:

    Hy marcel,

    I’ve seen Grepolis changing and evolving for a while now.
    But i have to say something about this new features.
    Grepolis is a (free to play) MMORPG but i can say now that the game has lost a lot of its initial beautifull features which made it so sucessfull by the BIG PUBLIC like:
    – WAR between alliances.
    – STRATEGY
    – POSSIBILITY TO CONQUEST AN ENEMY CITY WHITHOUT HAVING THEM KNOWING NOTHING IF THEY AREN’T ONLINE.

    So the point is, that i like the introduction of new features and rebalancing’s of the game but only if they improve it, and do not destroy the real purpose of the game, LIKE CONQUESTING ENEMY CITIES.

    I have to say that since the introduction of the pushnotification of attack with the grepolisapp on the modern smartphones the game has lost all its meaning.
    I mean that the allarm disabilitate’s the conquest of other cities becouse of the enemy knowing it…
    So the enemy needs only a few seconds to react and to call help of his mates, and in case his walls are thrown to the ground he spends a few euros and he has them again at lvl 25….

    So what i am trying to say marcel, please give people the chance to play a war game based on strategy and time we spend in the game and not on pushnotifications…

    I have you will answer this comment and write me for further illuminisms…

    • Avatar Marcel Zons says:

      We are already investigating the issues concerning the push notifications and think about solutions. πŸ™‚

      • Avatar Woldo says:

        Investigation: 2.0 version and new features have changed the gane in the worst way, grepolis is totaly destroyed.

        Solution: give we back 1.0 version…..and the old developers (or remove developers, is a stable version, need only server manteniance)

        Your Humble Servant.

      • Avatar Kongel says:

        The push notification is a nice feature! It allows people not sitting 24/7 in front of a pc to play the game too.

        And it make it more interesting to play because now its up to create attacking strategies ruther than simple conquest when the player is offline.

  18. Avatar Susi says:

    Hi, sorry for my english but I’m italian..

    I dont understand because Innogames needed all this news, because is Innogames that would all this changes, not the players.

    Introduction of the push notification for attack with the grepolis-app on the modern smartphones removes the ability to conquer enemy towns, because the players come back online even if they are in the emergency room.
    Whit the Conquest sistem became impossible conquer someone because even if I have the colonial ship at 30 minutes from the enemy city, whit the allarm the surprise effects disappears…..

    This game was based on strategy and time, now on grepolis-app and money.

    The rebalancing of the units will block the game forever. What’s the problem if anyone make Trireme?? I dont have any problem, and at the Innogames dont change nothings.

    Now players use light ship to attack and bireme to defence..
    (population free 2400: full = 150 trireme, 300 bireme and 240 light ship)

    10 full Light Ship + 10 full Bireme:
    Attack: 480k – Defence: 480k

    After the rebalancing players use only trireme to attack and defence..

    20 full Trireme:
    Attack: 750k – Defence: 750k

    So, if I made light ships and bireme I dont have any possibility to win against who made only trireme, so anyone made light ships and bireme and if everyone use trireme for attack and defence, no one will have more ships and the game will blocked.
    After Innogames will make a new rebalancing for change light ships and bireme?? -.-

    All the dinamics the games will be destroied. All will be boring.
    I play at this game since 3 years and I think that the best version was the 1.0. Rebalancig is not necessary like fix bugs; this is the really problem.

    • Avatar Yury says:

      Just think what happens if 2 Trirems nukes meets with 1 FS nuke? πŸ™‚
      You will lost your deffensive ships also!

      Fire ships are naturally limits a Triremes usage.

  19. Avatar Will says:

    Hi,
    Some interesting ideas there. I have one for balance, currently we have a city in our alliance that is being attacked by 60 cities. We have stacked 45,000 DLU 6,000 Bireme and 500 Hell Hounds in this city. Obviously the enemy doesn’t have a chance due to the stacked effect.

    So what about a option of a meeting point, all the troops Meet at the location, then when the leader send them out they attack as one force. This way attacking forces can be as large as defending forces.

    On myth units, the Peg is barely useful as a last ditch defender. New stats will hut it’s usage. Hydra are great as is all but one thing, they move too slow, they need to be speed up to be real useful.

    Some other items look good, Maybe allow for more than 2 special buildings per city. Or a central holding for supplies when they reach over a certain amount.

    Another possibility is allow 1 click demand or looting of all farms if you have the captain. (gets to be a pain at 100 cities)

  20. Avatar Yury says:

    1. Thank you for left FS in game.
    Now all 4 naval units has own value in game.

    2. Both in old and new version a Pegasus suitable for only one purpose – to fly fast in enemy city and to see how many transports and birems in Harbor.

    3. What about Special buildings? How they will be grouped?
    I think the root of problem are in wrong grouping.
    One special buildings give a big advantage among other in group and used in almost all cities.

    • Avatar Marcel Zons says:

      Keep in mind that regrouping is also difficult because of the graphics. Most buildings of one group share the same space in the town view. The lighthouse is the exception. πŸ™‚

      • Avatar Yury says:

        I see but…
        1. Without regrouping no alternative for Thermal bath in first group and rebalancing for special buildings will lost all sense.
        2. I think images can be scaled.
        3. We have free space on the right of lumbermill. Move lumbermill right, marketplace move to place of lumbermill and Temple on place of Market. Or alternative – Warehouse on place of Tower, Barrack on place of Wirehouse and we have 2 big spaces for both type of icons for special buildings.

  21. Avatar Will says:

    Another thought, the trireme are not worth the effort on revolt worlds, but with the and same with fireships. With the new rebalancing will worlds that are already in play get a free reset of research points to convert over?

    • Avatar Marcel Zons says:

      A complete reset would mean that you have to spend all the needed resources again. Is that desirable? πŸ˜‰

  22. Avatar Jonorocks1 says:

    Good job keeping fireships, it a right decision!

    I like all the myth rebalancing, especially the manticore, it will be even better than before πŸ˜‰

    All you need to do is fix WW’s and mouse-mash farming and i may actually decide to keep playing.

  23. Avatar Stork says:

    All good changes – except – for the Pegasi / Medusa nerfs.

    Unwarranted! I think you should reconsider these two.

  24. Avatar Yury says:

    How much research points will cost Life Guards, Standards and Teaching Parlor?

    • Avatar Marcel Zons says:

      These details are not set yet. But Life Guards and Standards will be very cheap. Teaching Parlor is probably going to be in the middle (i.e. 4 points).

  25. Avatar Qubit says:

    Hi Marcel,

    Will the changes be released on same date as the heroes?

    Thanks!

  26. Avatar sahri98 says:

    hello
    the changes made are quite good especially the manticore and the trireme but alas sie has halved the potential of pegasi and jellyfish ….
    I am satisfied compliments

  27. Avatar Rodrigo Olsen says:

    I hardly ever come across Medusa and Pegasus anyway, why would you make a barely used myth unit even more undesirable?
    Just have a look in any top player walls and see what i am talking about..

  28. Avatar Pakman says:

    One thing that is not balanced yet is Merchant Shop.
    And the thing that no one here has mention this building either as a good change or as a bad is proof that you didnt think about this very much.

    Theoretically as i read the change i dont think that someone may build it. I think this building should make the city of the owner a big trading(or maybe transport) city with major changes not only to that city but to the strategy that a player follows.

  29. Avatar chalna says:

    why are people so worried about the app.
    just be patient, and build enough troops……
    it doesn’t really wake most people up anyway.