Hello everyone,
I want to take a moment to get your feedback about a couple of our heroes and give you an idea of what we are planning for the future. As of now, there are a few heroes that we think deserve a few changes based on usage data.
Current Heroes
While looking at some data for the hero usage in general, I got to think a bit about some of our Heroes of War. Let’s take Hector to start with:
Hector
One of the most important heroes of Troy. He was the leader of the defending armies and is the son of Priamos.
Effect:
“Swordsmen and slingers have 10% (+1% / Level) increased offensive and defensive values while fighting at Hector’s side.”
We can say this is a useful effect but at the same time, it is arguable that especially for more experienced players, it is a wasteful effect. Why do I say that? Because after you know a bit more about the game you almost never will have a city with Swordsmen and Slingers. It does not make sense strategically since most players will opt to specialize their cities, focusing on attack or defense (disregarding mythical, naval offense, and naval defense).
Proposed Change:
So I would propose a change in this heroes effect to remove the Swordsmen and add the Hoplites, making it a more efficient hero altogether. This would also bring some changes to another hero, Themistokles.
Themistokles
He was a statesman and commander of Athens when Greece was threatened by the Persians. He was victorious in the fight of Salamis.
Effect:
“Divine Envoys and horsemen have 10% (+1% / Level) increased offensive and defensive values while fighting at Themistokles side.”
Proposed Change:
Divine envoys are barely used by the majority of players, so I would also propose changing this hero’s effect to remove the Divine Envoys and add the Slingers. Also making it a hero that has more strategical value.
Future Heroes
This brings me to future heroes, we are planning on bringing a few heroes that are specialized in single units (some of you already seen Telemachos). This will allow players to have a bit of an advantage when creating single unit nukes and help to defend cities. Of course, these single unit heroes will have a higher effect than double unit heroes, let us look at Telemachos, a future hero that will be joining the list soon.
Telemachos
The son of Odysseus and Penelope, he was an able fighter and important figure during the Trojan War.
Effect:
“Swordsmen have 15% (+1% / Level) increased offensive and defensive values while fighting at Telemachos side.”
So unlike Hector and Themistokles that render 10% (+1%/Level) to two specific units, and Deimos that render 5% (+0.5%/Level) to all units, the single unit heroes will have a head start with 15% making them tactically different from the others. We have a few more single unit heroes and a few more two unit heroes already designed and coming soon.
We do have ideas for other heroes with different effects as well, but for the moment I would like to focus the feedback on these. I would especially like to hear what you think about the changes on current heroes. Of course, all feedback and ideas are welcome, I am looking forward to hearing what you think.
Best regards,
Bernard Graham
As a Game Designer, I work to improve Grepolis in any way I can. I mostly listen to the community and find good ways to make players life easier and more exciting.
Nice idea, both single & double unit hero will help to add an edge in both Attack and Defence.
Is it possible to limit heroes to specific Gods e.g.
If you have selected Poseidon limit the Hero selection to naval attack or defence heroes. (or does that tell everybody what you have in each city?)
I agree with all of the Proposed Changes made to both Hector and Themistokles and logic behind it, it just makes no sense to build both units that they power up.
Any idea when changes to Hector and Themistokles will hit live worlds?
Sincerely,
Amazon
Thanks Amazon King, there is no schedule right now. For now I am looking for your thoughts and feelings about this to then make a final decision about it.
Hector provides universal usability (which I prefer to only att/deff usability) thanks to slinger and swordsmen. As slingers are almost always combined with hoplites or horsemen, replacing swordsmen by hoplites could lead to buffing the whole attack in fact. I’m afraid it’ll be quite powerful… and he’s cheap.
Themistocles – similar situation to Hector. Let’s compare Deimos – he adds 5.5 – 15 % to all units in attack. His cost is 120 coins. Now, we would have Themistocles who costs 60 coins and who makes exactly same effect. Why same? Because attacks usually contain slingers + riders + catapults. It has the best ratio power/cost.
So, making these heroes clearly offensive (it’s quite funny that they also improve defensive values even though the units are off) could disbalance Deimos.
When seeing the list of heroes, I’ve noticed other issues.
Agamemnon – provides buff to hoplites and archers. Hoplites can be combined with archers – it means that both units can gain his bonus at once and he… he’s the cheapest from all the heroes of this type.
Heracles – really expensive… I’ve never seen him many times. I think situation where he’s almost the only one suitable is very rare. Another heroes are more suitable.
And what about heroes of wisdom?
Apheledes – isn’t he expensive again? You welcome his effect in early game stages… but you need to quickly get him and level up… otherwise he doesn’t worth it.
Democritus – almost the only hero which is powerful in all game stages… and he costs only 70 coins.
Ulysess – why does he cost 115 coins and not 105 like Cheiron or Aristotle?
And I also think that the algorithm of the daily changed offer of heroes should be adjusted. I couldn’t get into the offer heroes who are (the most) useful in my currently game stage. E.g. I need Orpheus, Christopolus… but I get still Aristotle, Cheiron etc… which I can use only on ‘several’ units. Or in case of heroes of war – Iason could be fine (as plundering is acted especially in the early game stage), however I get to the offer heroes like Urephont, Deimos, Zuretha… Battles in early game stages are small, so impact of these heroes doesn’t worth it. Or Atalanta – fights are mainly led on short distances. So, these are useful later imo.
These heroes should be prioritized by the algorithm in my opinion:
war: agamemnon, pelops, hector, iason, themistocles + helene
wisdom: apheledes, christopholus, orpheus, resource heroes + democritus
Hello Thass,
Let’s talk about your points one by one.
You are right there are players who would prefer a more universal usability to their heroes, some of these combinations can be useful but only in very specific situations. I wanted to focus the use of the heroes so they are more frequently explored. We are able of course to keep them as they are and come up with new heroes to cover these gaps, but then I am afraid the not so focused ones are just going to be abandoned.
I am not so sure this change would make him so powerful as to unbalance attacks because as we know the defense has a bit of an advantage with the support possibility.
About unbalancing Deimos, you do have a point. But there are many ppl who attack with mythical creatures along with a regular land army and having the power to improve all your units instead of just a part of them is still very powerful. Wouldnt you think?
Well, Agamemnon is quite useful if you use him for defense, as Hoplites can be used for defense along archers. I am not sure what you are pointing out here. Do you think he is priced too low?
I think you are right about Heracles we could reduce his price a bit, but then again I have seen his ability being used quite efficiently. I think if we would reduce his price It wouldn’t be a lot.
Apheledes – I wouldn’t say he is expensive, you can move him around to every new city that needs research restructure, and that happens quite a bit.
Democritus – If we think about the usability we really should increase his price a bit, I think you are correct, I am going to take a longer look at him and see what would be a good amount.
Ulysess – I guess you meant Odysseus, if you look at the attributes Odysseus is quite stronger than both others, that is why he is a little more expensive.
This is a very interesting idea, I will check in detail with the devs how the algorithm works and see if we can improve it.
All in all thanks for all the detailed feedback you provided, this is very usefull to us.
“About unbalancing Deimos, you do have a point. But there are many ppl who attack with mythical creatures along with a regular land army and having the power to improve all your units instead of just a part of them is still very powerful. Wouldnt you think?”
I wouldn’t think. It maybe depends on market however I don’t see myth along with regular units often, probably excluding erinyes, these are more common.
If I attack more often with combos slingers + riders or slingers + hoplites why should I buy Deimos if I can recruit and level up 2 other heroes which I can use at same time and they will provide me higher bonus to all units as Deimos do? I really prefer that these heroes buff at one time only 1 unit, not both.
“Well, Agamemnon is quite useful if you use him for defense, as Hoplites can be used for defense along archers. I am not sure what you are pointing out here. Do you think he is priced too low?”
As you said, hoplites can be used along archers. So, he can provide bonus to both units at once. That’s why I think he’s pretty cheap.
“Ulysess – I guess you meant Odysseus, if you look at the attributes Odysseus is quite stronger than both others, that is why he is a little more expensive.”
Yep, you’re right. I meant Odysseus, I’m sorry. He’s stronger than others however I don’t think it should increase his cost as I don’t think anybody consider his fight values. We all want heroes only for their bonus. 😛
Have a nice weekend!
Hey, I have almost forgotten! About Medea, I strongly disagree about her slingers bonus. Slingers are the most cheap and quite strong att unit which att value can be increased also with reaalllyyy cheap spell Aim of huntress. On other units you can use only Power by Athena. She should benefit another one.
I understand that, but we are planning on adding heroes that benefit each of the units in the game, so this is something we are not going to change.
There will be more and more heroes and we hope to have a nice balance between them, considering they have different uses.
I see your points, but our idea is to add more heroes with other combinations, I just felt like we should start with the more useful combinations, the ones that have 2 units at the same time. We also take in account that at one point players have more cities than heroes, and that opens more room to use the less valuable heroes, in this case, heroes with single use unit combinations.
About Deimos, we cannot forget how good he becomes on defense when players many times have more than 2 regular units and sometimes mythical units as well (in a city that is being supported of course).
I will try to get some more feedback about this change in the forums, just to have more inputs, but you do have some very nice points that I will for sure take into consideration before taking any action.
Thanks again