Nerfing a deity – Ares Rebalancing

Hello players!

Over the course of the current sprint (2.243), we’ll be making our first batch of rebalancing changes to Ares. These changes are in response to Community feedback since Ares’ release, and we’re hoping, should address the areas where Ares is overpowered as a God. The intention of these changes is to reduce, but not completely diminish, Ares power as a deity, whilst retaining his uniqueness compared to other gods. It is incredibly important, and can’t be understated, how much we appreciate your feedback and for helping to understand where Ares impacts the meta, as well as suggesting how we can address these imbalances.

So, without further ado, lets get into what you’ll see over the next couple of weeks. These changes will go live with version 2.243, but will be rolled out on beta progressively as the respective tasks are implemented into our daily deployments. We’ll continue to clarify which changes are in via our daily changelogs as they come. The rebalancing is split into three subtasks, so there will be three headings for this post.

Part 1: Ares Sacrifice and Ares Army

First up is Ares Sacrifice and Ares Army, both of which will be rebalanced. Below you can see the original spell description, alongside the new description showing what we will change (changes in red):

SpellOld descriptionNew description
Ares SacrificeSacrifice up to 100 population’s worth of non-mythical units you own in this city and gain 1 Fury for every 1 population sacrificed.
Costs: 100 Favor
Sacrifice up to 50 population’s worth of non-mythical units you own in this city and gain 2 Fury for every 1 population sacrificed.
Costs: 100 Favor
Ares ArmyConsumes the entire fury pool. For every 10 points of Fury consumed this way (rounded down), add one Spartoi to the offensive command.
Costs: 380 Favor + 100% of current Fury
Consumes the entire fury pool. For every 25 points of Fury consumed this way (rounded down), add one Spartoi to the offensive command.
Costs: 380 Favor + 100% of current Fury

With these two changes, we adjust the effectiveness of Ares Army significantly, whilst retaining that it is a high cost/high risk strategy for players to employ if they want to have an edge. We also make generating Fury with Ares Sacrifice cheaper, which leads us onto the second part of the rebalancing.

Part 2: Bloodlust

One of the big pieces of feedback received was it was way too easy to generate maximum fury, meaning that the costs associated with Ares Army were diminished. Bloodlust is by far the main cause of this ease of generating Fury, so we want to adjust it to impact the overall cost associated with using Ares Army.

SpellOld descriptionNew description
BloodlustImprove offensive ability of all attacking units by 5% + 1% for every 200 Fury available. Additionally, 50% of your dead unit’s population return to you as Fury once the battle has ended.

100 Favor + 50% of current Fury
Improve offensive ability of all attacking units by 5% + 1% for every 200 Fury available. Additionally, the battle points for this attack are increased by 1% for every 1000 Fury available.

Costs: 100 Favor + 50% of current Fury

This change is quite radical, and coupled with the Ares Sacrifice change, we know already we will need to keep an eye on Fury generation to see if this addresses the issues. If we see this hasn’t quite made the right balance, we’ll make some future changes. However, Bloodlust, with the addition of Fury generation, we see as being difficult to balance without making it worthless, so we will not re-add this to the spell. We also recognize that the battle points bonus may need some tweaks, so please be sure to let us know your thoughts on this in the comments, so we can adjust it if need be, hopefully before live release.

We will not make any changes to Spartan Training.

Part 3: Ladons

Our vision statement with Ladons is “The Ladon is not a unit to win a battle but to weaken a highly defended city the most. We wanted to introduce a brand new flying unit which changes the established strategies. We want Ladons to be a very powerful unit, which players use to weaken a heavily defended city, without making them so powerful they change the game too much.

Unfortunately, we pushed too far and made it too powerful, especially when combined with Ares Army. With the rebalancing, we will adjust several aspects of Ladons, keeping it as a very powerful unit, without making the costs of using them be so inconsequential when compared to the reward. We especially wanted to adjust Ladons to ensure they don’t mess with strategy too much on conquest worlds. The table below shows the original stats, and the new stats.

Wood: 21,000
Stone: 21,500
Silver: 20,500
Favor: 490
Population: 180
Build time: 25 hours, 20 minutes (speed 1)
Wood: 9,240
Stone: 9,460
Silver: 9,020
Favor: 490
Population: 85
Build time: 11 hours, 18 minutes (speed 1)
Attack (Ranged): 2530-6325
Defense (Blunt): 2390
Defense (Sharp): 1950
Defense (Ranged): 2100
Speed: 100
Loot: 2200
Attack (Ranged): 1195-2988
Defense (Blunt): 478
Defense (Sharp): 390
Defense (Ranged): 420
Speed: 40
Loot: 1000
Attacking targets with higher population than the
combined population of all Ladons ,
increases all Ladon’s offensive power in this attack.
For every 10 population difference,
Ladon’s offensive power increase by 30% (up to 150%).
Additionally, all other units in this attack gain 1%
attack power per Ladon (up to 10%; this does not stack with
 Ladon’s offensive power increase).
Attacking targets with higher population than the
combined population of all Ladons ,
increases all Ladon’s offensive power in this attack.
For every 3000 population difference,
Ladon’s offensive power increase by 6% (up to 150%).
Additionally, all other units in this attack gain 1%
attack power per Ladon (up to 10%; this does not stack with
Ladon’s offensive power increase and does not apply to ghost units).

As you can see, this is a very significant change in how Ladons are used. We feel this achieves what we set out to deliver, which is to essentially make Ladons have a very specific use case when used against your enemies. But, to talk about some specific reasons, lets take a look at each topic.

Passive boost:

The passive for Ladons was originally designed to give players a strong reason to use this unit over other units in their arsenal. The new balancing keeps the Ladon as the most powerful unit at maximum boost, but this maximum boost only triggers when the population difference between the Ladons and the defending army is significant. The plan being you don’t send Ladons to completely clear a city, you send them to make huge damage to their defenses, giving you a window of opportunity to attack!

Population and resource costs:

We’ve more than halved the population cost for Ladons. This is to bring the favor/population costs in sync with other mythical units. With the reduced cost of population, we wanted to also reduce the resource costs to be inline with other units.

Attack value:

To keep it in line with the population and other costs, this has been a little over halved too. Additionally, with the changes to the passive, it means that Ladons are still most cost effective when used for their intended purpose. An unboosted Ladon is comparatively not as powerful as other units, but that is kind of the point.

Defensive values:

We’ve very significantly reduced the defenses of Ladons. It is an offensive unit, not a defensive unit.


The Ladons were way too fast. They are still a very fast unit, but not nearly as fast as they were before.

Closing words

We hope the above gives you some insight into what is coming, as well as our rationale behind these changes. We know they are a lot, but we also know that Ares is causing some very significant strategic issues for our players. Once more, thank you for helping us to make these adjustments. We’re looking forward to your comments and questions in our feedback section below this post, or on your forums!

Kind regards,


Community Management Specialist – Grepolis Team

Community Management Specialist - Grepolis

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Posted in Community Updates, Game Design
70 comments on “Nerfing a deity – Ares Rebalancing
  1. Jason Rickman says:

    Great work!

  2. Mr. Derek M Hart says:

    Horrible changes – completely unnecessary. I now have 100 useless Ladons to defend my Cities when sieged. They are also too weak against Walls when used as an attack as you recommend “you send them to make huge damage to their defences, giving you a window of opportunity to attack! – NOT if the defending City has a Wall above level one. !!!

    • Richard Stephenson says:

      Sorry to hear that’s how you feel. I wouldn’t call the rebalanced Ladons useless, simply different to how they currently work. The units were overpowered, and we opted to change them to improve their balance and usability within the game meta. What are your main concerns regarding the rebalance? On conquest worlds, their effectiveness against walls isn’t really something which needs considering, as people don’t build walls on these worlds. Are you more concerned about their usefulness on Revolt worlds? Do you have some ideas on what improvements you’d prefer?

  3. Arthur.P says:

    Ladons …from one of the strongets to a useless unit
    No comment for bloodlust

    • Richard Stephenson says:

      Sorry to hear that’s how you feel. Can you give me a little insight into what some middle ground solution you’d think would work?

  4. Daniël van Andel says:

    Mostly good changes I think, Ares was definitely way too strong. I think the nerfs are generally in the right places. In my opinion the changes to both ares army and bloodlust seem very good. I think the fury increasy in bloodlust is good, but a little high. The changes to Ladons are in my opinion while most necessary, also the most extreme. Decreasing their population without changing the favor cost is good, as the were comparatively cheap. The changes to other stats accordingly seem fine to me as well. Staggering the boost over more levels of population seems like a very good change as well, now more troops have to be present for a full boost. The only part where I feel like changes went overboard is the required population difference. 3k population difference required per level is absurdly high, I think Ladons would rarely go above 12% attack boost with that amount. I think it would probably be better somewhere in the hundreds. They would then still be very useful as a first attacker on a siege for example.

    But let’s just see what happens, I can understand that balancing a game is very difficult.

    • Richard Stephenson says:

      Thanks for your comments. You’re correct, balancing everything to make them appropriately powerful for both conquer modes, as well as 3 different Endgames is no small task. We’re hoping these changes will work as intended.

  5. Siaz says:

    when the changes will be implemented?

    • Richard Stephenson says:

      The changes will be included in version 2.243, which is planned for live release on July 21st (20th on NL). You can already see the chances on Beta over the next two weeks if you want to.

  6. Kling says:

    Jesus, Ladons are worthless now, especially for that 490 favor/unit. you overdid this nerf by far.

    • Richard Stephenson says:

      I’m sorry to hear that you think that. The new costs of the unit are actually aligned with all other mythical units now, in fact, it is still cheaper than others. The rebalance overall brings them statistically inline with other units, whilst retaining their unique passive ability.

  7. Emanuel G. de Mello says:

    I liked that inno did one nerf on this god who was out of the curve.

    Some changes were good, others not so good…

    I think it would be better:

    -> Ares sacrifice: Sacrifice up to 100 units and gain triple fury for each unit sacrificed. Cost: 50 favors. (With the debuff in the ares sacrifice it is necessary to have a big buff in the ares sacrifice to make it useful, otherwise it is stupid.. You lose more than wins).

    1000 unit sacrificed = 3000 fury and 500 favors.
    3,000 / 25 (fury for 1 spartoi ) = 120 x 10 ( spartoi population ) = 1200 population in total (basically 20% gain in relation to the sacrificed population and gained through the ghostly spartoi, a reasonable gain for those who had the trouble of making troops and sacrificing… they’re betting on a spell that can be cleansed, find nothing in the target city and had 500 favors spent on sacrifice and 380 favors for the ares army ).

    -> Bloodlust: Improves offensive skill of all attacking units by 5%. 15% of the population of your dead units returns to you as fury once the battle ends. (A free way to farm fury, but on the other hand more slower than the ares sacrifice).

    Attack population: 3400 – 15% = 510 fury
    510/25 ( fury for 1 spartoi ) = 20.4 x 10 (spartoi population) = 204 population in total (corresponds to 6% of 3400 )

    -> Ares army: it was perfect in my opinion.

    -> Ladons: Decrease the cost of favors to 270.

    Sorry for my bad English.

    • Richard Stephenson says:

      Thanks for your response and input.

      For Ladons, the new costs are now aligned with the costs of other mythical units. They were significantly unbalanced when compared to others. The favor cost remaining the same is intended to address their favor/population cost.

      For Bloodlust, we have removed the Fury generation from this spell due to this being very difficult to actually balance without making the affect entirely worthless. We will not re-add Fury generation to this spell.

      For Ares Sacrifice, this is also quite complex to balance without making it a spell which is overpowered. If we see this needs further adjusting, we will make changes to this further down the line.

  8. Jack Sill says:

    The community was extremely vocal about how OP ares was going to be and complained extensively about changes needing to be made. (how people creating Ares didnt see how strong he’d be is beyond me, they must not even play the game)
    You guys instead opt to release him only to nerf him down the road in worlds that have already been running for months. WTF.

    • Richard Stephenson says:

      Thanks for your comments. In short, Grepolis is only fun when it is correctly balanced. There was always the possibility that we would rebalance Ares, and due to his aggressive nature, this was highly probable. We did see the community feedback on Beta before live release, yes, but it didn’t really immediately become obvious how he affected the game’s meta, which is why we delayed addressing the balancing until now (as well as some other internal reasoning).

      We get this isn’t ideal, but our game is always subject to change, and especially when we introduce something new.

  9. Edmond Dantes says:

    I think you guys are making a change people want, they don’t want Ares to run every single world. The problem is that you guys avoided this issue altogether when we brought it up at the start, and are now changing it halfway through worlds.

    Keep Ares as is for the current worlds and change him for any future worlds. This solution will appease almost everyone who still has a problem with Ares/this patch. (A lot of players who wanted Ares nerf are still incensed at the fact that its being done this way.) I understand keeping two versions of the game code is a little difficult, but for your blunder (sorry thats what i call it when you dont listen to any of your players from the beginning) you should consider putting in the resources/effort to do so.

    • Richard Stephenson says:

      Thanks for your comments and input. In short, maintaining two versions of our code, one for already opened worlds, and one for newly opened worlds, is not a little difficult, but rather something which isn’t technically desirable, nor feasible. Additionally, by our own admission, Ares is overpowered and leaving him overpowered on these old worlds is hardly consistent with this narrative. We understand that players invested time and resources into this god, and we also understand that for some players, this presents a strategical challenge, but in short, this is the correct decision for Grepolis.

  10. Arthur.P says:

    Right now they are like this
    For every 10 population difference,
    Ladon’s offensive power increase by 30% (up to 150%).
    They are insanely strong,true, but are not a game breaker, surely needs a little nerf, and they are usefull only against siege, especially considering their stats are preatty low, basically useless without passive.

    With this nerf theyl become like this
    For every 3000 population difference,
    Ladon’s offensive power increase by 6% (up to 150%).

    Now they’re stats are even lower, and there has to be a 3000 population difference,and they’re stats are so low that even with a 12k difference it still would be a waste to build them, many siege won’t even reach 12k difference, especially in new world.

    Nothing to say about sacrifice and ares Army.

    Was perfect…many people couldn’t build fury in a safe way, needed this “50% of your dead unit’s population return to you as Fury once the battle has ended.” and wasn’t even something too strong or too weak, was just perfect.
    New passive seems almost useless

    • Richard Stephenson says:

      Thanks for your input. When designing Ares, we always intended him to be most useful to the mid and late game. We have gods in our game who have value at different points in a world, this has always been the case. In short, the entire vision of Ladons is to provide players with a new type of strategy, not completely rewrite existing ones. With this rebalance, we achieve this, as we introduce a different way of using Ladons strategically. Bloodlust was unfortunately not perfect. In short, players with even a moderate number of towns were able to very quickly generate 5000 Fury, meaning the cost vs reward of using Ares Army was a no brainer. We removed this to make it so Fury generation is much tougher. As stated in the article, we understand this is a radical change, but in our opinion, it is also a necessary one.

      • Arthur.P says:

        I can’t understand how hard is to balance a game, because obviously i never did it, and always appreciate what you’re doing.
        But I don’t think a different way of using Ladons strategically was introduce, they were just made useless, there is no strategy that can save them, allthe other mythical units are a better option and faster to build. It was too extreme, but can’t blame you. Hope they will get rebalanced in the future.

  11. Lightning of Zeus
    Ice of Poseidon
    Soul of Hades
    Fire of Ares
    More specifically, I would like each of these four gods to grant a fraction of their divine power to mine and other cities.

    • Richard Stephenson says:

      Thanks for your comments. Can you give me a little more detail? I’m not sure what you are wanting to add.

  12. Eric R Westgaard says:

    Why would you guys take the Fury generation away from Bloodlust and also drop the Ares Army from 500 to 200. This is just by far retarded.

    I would have to agree with the other person commenting on this. Ladons/Ares went to being good to practically being useless now.

    How are we suppose to generate fury now instead of always killing our own troops at such a low gain in fury. Complete and utterly useless. How many ppl do you think are actually going to kill 3 full nukes of DLU or OLU to get full fury? NO ONE or 1 in 100 people.

    Such a shame, was a good addition to the game made almost obsolete in 3 servers.

    Great Job yup.

    • Richard Stephenson says:

      Thanks for your input and comments. In fact, our data as well as player feedback confirms that a lot of players were actively doing exactly this, generating large amounts of Fury sacrificing entire nukes. This is absolutely a tactic which was being employed, and removing Fury generation from Bloodlust simply makes sense with this in context. Ares Army too was simply too powerful of a spell, especially when coupled with Ladons (even with the rebalanced Ladon passive), so reducing the effectiveness was a must.

  13. George says:

    The only edge, which can also be countered, were the 500 Spartoi produced from 5000fury to attack a stacked city. Now that is ruined.

    Ladons went from fastest and strongest to slow and weak but the favor needed is still the same.

    I am sorry, but these changes only hurt the gameplay. Well, the offensive part of the game rather than the defensive.

    Might as well remove bloodlust all together or just make it into some kind of passive like Aphrodites.

    It was such a cool deity and now its rubbish.

    A very dodgy update.

    • Richard Stephenson says:

      Thanks for your comments. I’m sorry to hear that you feel that way. Absolutely it impacts mostly the offensive aspects of the game, but that is the intention of the rebalance. As it currently stands, Ares has the potential to give way too much power to the attacker. Grepolis is really only fun when correctly balanced, and Ares needed adjusting because of this. It is one thing to lose to a more skilled player, but a whole other thing to lose because of balance issues in the game’s design.

  14. Chorbero says:

    These changes are completely absorbed, ares becomes useless

    • Richard Stephenson says:

      Thanks for your input. Can you let me know specifically why you feel it makes him useless?

  15. T says:

    Wished the older gods would also have units with passives that can be used in strategies instead of being beatsticks or not used at all.
    i.e. medusa strenghtening defending units by 0.5% per unit or
    hydras giving buffs to other mythical that travel with it etc.

    • Richard Stephenson says:

      Thanks for your comments! Yes, this is actually something we’d like to do too. It is on our radar of stuff to add at a later date, but nothing concrete yet, so watch this space!

  16. uzuchi says:

    can we try adding status effects unlocked by fulfilling God requirement missions

    • Richard Stephenson says:

      Thanks for your input. I’m not quite sure what you’re suggesting, can you give me a little more detail?

  17. Lost says:

    Lmao, from being one of the most OP god to being One of the most useless GOD in grepo now

    Why do we need to sacrifice 2.5k population to gain fury for 200 spartoi using ares army. when we can just use those 2.5k alu to do more damage.

    BloodLust is gone as the only use of it was to generate fury.
    Previously we use to get 1 ladon for 490 favor with good stats, now we get half ladon stats for the same favor, like how does this make sense? Im better off making harpy nuke instead of ladons.
    On a Revolt World with 25 wall, and only 10k dlu, those myth nuke wont even give you 1x the bp.
    And Wasting 50% fury to gain like 1% extra bp, thats garbage. We are better off trading bps with enemies then to use that spell, idk what you guys are smoking while doing these changes, but i want the same stuff.

    For doing these kinds of updates, join Activision and Updates Warzone, as they are doing a great job like you guys in destroying a perfectly good game

    • Richard Stephenson says:

      Thanks for your comments. In short, the cost rebalance of Ladons is to bring them inline with the costs of other mythical units. Yes, in some use cases, you may as well build a Harpy nuke, considering they now cost roughly the same population per favor (in fact, Ladons are still cheaper at 5.7 favor per popultion vs 6 per population).

      For the Battle Points buff on Bloodlust, you may be right, and we’ll see how effective this is, and might improve the output of the BP with this spell at a later date, but for sure, we will not put Fury generation back onto Bloodlust.

      The rebalance is specifically designed around Community feedback since Ares’ live release. I can only apologize that you don’t like these changes, but we’re doing them in response to outcry over Ares being OP.

  18. JFL Charlie says:

    So basically you have turned ares into a weaker version of Hera. You gutted the myth which only real value was its high speed for snipes and its relatively cheap favor. If you wanted to nerf the unit, just take away 1 of those 2 aspects, don’t gut that shit like fish and make it basically as weak as a harpy.

    Secondly, the fury/spells. Why are you making it 5k favor for 5k fury? The current method was 50% of lost pop. If you think its strong, why not nerf it to 20% and make it over twice as difficult? You already removed the usefulness of fury by cutting the spartoi to 25 fury per (which btw, was a great nerf, simple yet effective). Lets take it a step further, what did you do to bloodlust? Who the hell is going to use that anymore? Its a worse favorable winds, worse than both artemis and athena spells, and the second part that use to be decent return some fury has been turned into a completely useless 1% per 1k fury bp? 1% per 1k fury, is that a typo? So if 5000 fury is now only possible from 5000 favor, you seriously value 5000 favor for a single attack 5% bp buff??? LOL.

    A nerf was needed to spartois mainly. The nerf to them was a good one. These extra changes scream desperation. You either rushed this nerf or just didnt realize the true issue of ares.

    Basically ares is now just an extra Hera. 1 spell for training land units, and now 1 B tier siege break myth unit that no decent player will build going forward.

    Take with it what you want. I am all for the spartoi nerf, but honestly after you guys implemented that bs fair play rule then refused to explain the actual boundaries of it I gave up ever expecting anything less from Inno. Maybe one day Landons will be useful again, and maybe I can send 100 sling HCs more than 4 times a day without being banned for doing so.

    So many issues in this game, and such lazy solutions.

    • Richard Stephenson says:

      Thanks for your input, I’m sorry to hear you’re unhappy with the changes.

  19. Ryan Kounelias says:

    This is a huge nerf. I understand getting rid of the bloodlust fury generation but you also nerfed ares army by what 65% . I think the army cap should remain the same at 500 as you have made it difficult to generate that much fury now. And ladons need 3000 pop difference to gain a 6% attack boost. That’s honestly pretty useless at those numbers

    • Richard Stephenson says:

      Thanks for your comments. In our opinion, they aren’t useless, just differently useful. The change does bring about a completely different strategical value to Ladons, as well as an adjustment to when you will use them, but when used right, they can make a very significant difference to the outcome of a battle. Ares is intended to a be a mid to late game god, and we think this rebalance achieves that intention.

  20. moonlight says:

    I hope it is my idea that does not correspond to the truth, but it seems that you are only interested in worlds with conquest.

    The rebalancing makes, in fact, the thieves useless on the revolt worlds given the use of the walls and the fact that to obtain a significant upgrade the amount of farm points would make them useless anyway.

    In addition to this, the future difficulties in gaining fury, combined with the reduction of the strength of the army of ares spell, makes this combination equally useless as it will be impossible, between necessary favors and units to be sacrificed, to obtain fury quickly. Even once obtained, you no longer get an attack of extraordinary strength, but an additional amount comparable to a normal attack.

    Eliminating the ability to rampage through attacks was already an acceptable solution to reducing the use of the army of ares spell, but doing so will not only make the spell rare, but also make it extremely costly to surrender. Just like returning from the underworld, the spell of Hades, this too will eventually no longer be used.

    • Richard Stephenson says:

      Thanks for your comments. The short answer is that it is less that we don’t care about Revolt, and more that as they are, Ladons and Ares are significantly more overpowered on conquest worlds. Yes, a lot of these changes were primarily focused on adjusting him so he didn’t ruin conquest worlds, but we did consider also Revolt worlds. Unfortunately, it is tough to balance very aggressive units to work well with both modes, without introducing elements which make them very overpowered on at least one of them. Whilst only addressing Fury generation may have been enough for Revolt, it certainly wasn’t sufficient to address problems on Conquest.

      • Max says:

        Maybe add effect that increases their attack based on city wall level by let’s say 2% per lvl

      • moonlight says:

        The problem is that the idea that there is a greater attention paid to conquest comes not exclusively from the rebalancing of ares, but also and above all from the lack of attention to the modality paid in the last period.

        Conquest has 3 possible end of the world, revolt has 2. Ares is rebalanced destroying its usefulness by revolt.

        Virtually all the ideas of your roadmap 2021 have been announced or completed, except for the one on the end of the world: exactly the one that interests most of the revolt players currently wedged between two endgames: domination and wonders, both with serious problems, specially wonders. You have promised to revise for years, but never do anything.

        It would be nice if Innogames showed its attention also for this modality by dedicating something exclusive to the modality or in any case more relevant to itself than to conquest.

        • Richard Stephenson says:

          Thanks for your reply and input. Yes, this is an understandable viewpoint, and I’m sorry it is coming across like this. We really don’t intend to neglect Revolt players, and we’ll hopefully be able to address some of these concerns in the coming months.

  21. Lupus Argento says:

    Szerintem ez a változtatás nagyon rossz ötlet , végre volt egy tökéletes mitikus egység , ami bár költséges meg időigényes de nagyon jó erre most el kell rontani .

    • Richard Stephenson says:

      Thanks for your input, and I’m sorry to hear thats how you feel. If you would like to share some thoughts on the improvement in more detail, you can do so here, and I can use Google Translate, or you could also share them on your local forums 🙂

  22. Damien says:


    Thanks for the update.
    It could be interesting to rework also Spartan Training since today it consumes some fury. Since the fury will be much more complex to get and will have to be built over a longer period maybe Spartan training should not consume fury anymore or at least less.

    • Richard Stephenson says:

      Thanks for your input and comments, I’ll look into this as a future consideration.

  23. BrianLanjick says:

    the adjustment on Ares army and bloodlust is a good work!However im little upset with the rebalancing on Ladon..Im in a conquest world and with ladon speed is being reduced and attacks power is halved is just a little upset because i have like 60ladons and i been using them everyday..please consider readjust the stat of ladon so its wont be a useless myth unit in conquest world

    • Richard Stephenson says:

      Thanks for your comments, I’m glad you’re happy with some of the changes. The changes to Ladons are necessary to also address the overpowered nature of this unit. Simply changing one aspect of Ares was insufficient, and we’d rather rebalance several linked parts of him at once, than incrementally adjust him over the course of several months or even years. On mid to late stage conquest worlds, Ladons passive will still be highly effective, without being an unbeatable force for the attacker.

  24. Meel says:

    So Ladons will never be used anymore….. Ladons were not overpowered, a full manti nuke still did way more damage to a stacked siege then ladons did. AA was stupidly OP and it is good it got nerfed. Ladons will now never be used anymore, and prob Ares will not be a popular god anymore al together. The 1 nerf from 10 to 25 on AA was enough to balance Ares, now you went way overboard and destroyed his usefullness al together, why would anyone ever cast Bloodlust again?
    Why build ladons if you can also build 3 way more usefull flyers?

    There was 1 problem, AA and you fixed it by making the entire god useless… great fix!

  25. SrGallina says:

    RIP Ladons

  26. no says:

    I believe that this redesign is just bad, it takes sacrificing 10 000 units to get 200 spartoi. And that now costs 10380 favors.

    On top of that, the glitch with doubled the spartoi’s strenght is gone and the spell can be purified.

    It’s just never worth it to use that spell anymore.

    • Richard Stephenson says:

      Thanks for your comments, and I’m sorry to hear that’s how you feel. Of course fixing a bug which doubled the potency of an already overpowered spell was important and needed our immediate attention, which is why this was fixed before the rest of the balancing changes were made.

  27. BrianLanjick says:

    I do understand it but adjusting ladons stat on a running world is killing some players strategy,some of us are using his speed as weapon too,we build ladons far from warzone because of the unit speed and now with ladons nerf,its ruining everything

  28. Tron O Assassino says:

    Bom dia
    Acho boas mundanças ele travou muito o modo cerco acho que com essas mudanças ficara mais equilibrado o jogo e acho até que ele ficou mais forte agora mas para cidades com uma contidade soberba de tropa de defesa aos inves de 20 ladão teremos 42 mas com ataque de 2950 final o que ajuda mas não favorece totalmente o atacante deixando uma janela boa tanto para defesa quanto ataque gostei das mudanças

  29. Gonzalo Eisshiex Cepeda says:

    Hi, instead of destroying ares, why u dont “Buff” defensive mytics units ?
    U could give passive to the defensive ones, and this would be more strategic in the large scan.

    • Richard Stephenson says:

      Thanks for your comments. Unfortunately, this doesn’t address the underlying balance issues with Ares. Of course, you can in theory balance an overpowered feature by bringing the power of other features to it’s level, but in this case, doing so would both be hard to achieve, but may not address the problems, and simply add more factors to the mix.

  30. kikelion says:

    creo que se tendrian que inplementar los cambios en los nuevos mundos pero hacerlo en los ya empezados no es justo ,eso es cambiar las reglas a media partida .

    • Richard Stephenson says:

      Thanks for your comments. Unfortunately, it is not possible or desirable for us to create two versions of the same unit, by only applying these changes to new worlds. We understand this impacts strategy, and we feel it is a valid risk to take to fix Ares, as he is quite overpowered currently.

  31. Hatchies says:

    You kinda murdered Ares, some of those nerfs were unnecessary.

    If I can give examples how I would do it:
    Ares Army goes from every 10 points of fury per one spartoi -> to 20 points of fury/spartoi – not 25
    Bloodlust goes from 50% of your dead unit’s population gained as fury -> to 25/30%
    I would keep ladons same as they are right now, just some tweeks to their speed, probably cut it to half – maybe 50/60 ?

    Those changes would make you generate fury twice as hard as it is now and you would have half spartois for that, that means, max 250 on attack. Which means, now live, you gain 500 spartois per 1000 fire boats (dont know how they are called in english) sacrifised with bloodfury, after this nerf, it would give you only 125 spartois per 1000 fire boats (1/4 of the original amount) thats a pretty big nerf, but the god would still be playable i think.

    Now with your changes, bloodlust is completely useless spell, you will never see anyone using it. Generating Fury is waaaaay too hard without bloodlust and you get so small amount of spartois for that. And Ladons are now underperforming mythical units (thats just my opinion, we will have to see how they actually perform). So the god just went from overpowered to completely useless, I really hope you will change it before realeasing this patch on live servers.

    • Richard Stephenson says:

      Thanks for your comments and input. Unfortunately, it was necessary to remove the Fury generation from Bloodlust, as it is simply too easy to exploit. The cost of sacrificed units sounds big, but really isn’t once you’re in the mid to late game, and have over 100 cities. For Ares Army itself, we wanted to make it so that the power was capped at around 1.5 x a city’s power, meaning its powerful, but not impossible to defend against. With Ladons, the changes made are necessary to bring it inline with other mythical units, as it was simply not balanced at all vs them.

  32. Rayga says:

    Agora os ladons viraram uma unidade comum, que ainda possui um custo alto para o que vai passar a fazer agora. O maior problema no ares era os espartos fantasmas, não precisa nerfar tanto assim, voltamos ao tempo que não se tem algo diferente para usar em situações em que há uma cidade muito numerosa de defesas. Infelizmente aleijaram a melhor unidade mítica do jogo.
    Penso que se os ladons estavam causando problemas nos mundos revoltas era usar este nerf lá então, nos mundos conquista ele estava ótimo, era só nerfar os espartos fantasmas como fizeram de 10 para 25 de fúria.
    Outra coisa, 490 de favor para fazer um ladon? nerfaram tudo de bom nele e na hora de nerfar este custo absurdo deixaram passar.
    Triste atualização, desanimadora!

    • Richard Stephenson says:

      Thanks for your comments and input. As mentioned in the article, the favor cost was not reduced to bring their cost inline with other mythical units. When compared to the population per favor cost, Ladons remain the cheapest units in the game. Prior to these changes, they were 50% cheaper than all other mythical units.

  33. Ника says:

    Играю сейчас в мире в Аресом, и полностью им довольна, после обновления игры Арес будет абсолютно бесполезным

    • Richard Stephenson says:

      Thanks for your comments. I’m sorry you feel that way. I’d say give him a try, and you might be surprised at how useful he still is after this update.

  34. autismo says:

    I agree, you kinda murdered Ares with this.

    Bloodlust / Laddons nerfs are good.

    But i think that in compensation you need to buff Ares Sacrifice.

    Cause now 1 Furor = 1 Unit + 1 Favor. Its waaaaaay too expensive with all the others nerfs.

  35. Shuri says:

    The nerf was needed, but I have my doubts this is enough.

    Your Ghost army can still accompany minimal HC attacks casted at the last moment, rendering Wisdom even more useless (it already isn’t great when alliances can utilitze many fake attacks in an OP). In my opinion this isn’t a tactic we want to keep in the game. The Attack spell boost was arguably buffed since the 1st spell actually produces twice the amount of Fury for the same population than before although you need more favor.

    Ladons still has the same cap at ~35 ATK per pop vs an 80k+ stack (common in mid-late game stages) which is still very powerful. While I agree it is nerfed for early game, the same issues as before will crop up later in the game. A few nukes will completely demolish end game stacks both in Revolt and CQ. It destroys the flyer balance of CQ – defensive units need to be more anti-ranged focus which lowers defensive capabilities against other flyer types. Even in early-mid game, CQ stacks can easily hit 50k DLU, and Ladon nukes will still hit this hard @ ~28 ATK per pop. If you observe how much damage golded 4k slinger nukes do to sieges you can see any Ranged flyer doesn’t actually need to have an ATK much over 20 to maintain balance. Anything more will break the flyer balance as described above.

    A speed of 40 is still ridiculously fast as the former fastest flyer, Pegasus, is 35, and this is a defensive unit. The former fastest offensive flyer, Harpy, is 28, and this was balanced because they were the weakest of offensive flyers. The Ladon is still both ridiculously fast AND strong. Its speed would be more appropriate if it was slower than LS if you will insist on its current maximum attack power.

    We need a Defensive God given what Aphrodite and Ares adds to the game. And still we have no balance for Aphrodite’s spells and units.

  36. Penn says:

    Ok so I responded pretty aggressively here the day you announced all this, I’ve had time to look at it a bit and I understand many of the changes you’re making to Ares’ spells and the Ladons. There’s some great alterations/nerfs in your upcoming update (primarily around the spells) but they’re buried under a pile of other nerfs that will have the effect of just NUKING Ares.

    Look. The initial numbers for the Ladon’s passive were, to put it bluntly, retarded. You’d reach the max 150% buff almost every time. So yes it makes sense to change them but I’m afraid you’ve replaced them with other absurd values. Ladons will be by far the worst myth to use on siege breaks for months on end, only reaching their true potential during the endgame on stuff like WW island sieges (a stage a majority of the game’s player base rarely even gets to). On top of this, their speed being reduced so drastically removes their unique specialty (newsflash if you don’t spend much time in grepolis servers, what makes Ladon’s unique isn’t the passive buff as much as it is the speed). Again, an area that needed a nerf but not by more than 50%.

    Where the nerfs have done well, imo, are the favor staying the same (ladon nukes were half as expensive favor wise as every single other flyer), Bloodlust being removed, and finally, the nerf to Ares Army. All needed changes that will help rebalance the game. What you’ve done in general to Ladon’s, however, is a disgrace of an update, in the opinion of a player who, unfortunately, plays and understands the game more than many of the people at Inno.

    You didn’t listen to the player’s input when you released Ares, so now you need to make drastic changes to rebalance the dynamic of the game. Got it ok. Yet you plan on going through with these changes, once again, without listening and taking the input of your players even into consideration? Come on, learn from your mistakes as a company and work with the people that know (and care) about this game more than many of the people working on it. It’ll save you a lot of trouble down the road and on top of that, will stem the incessant yapping from us on this side of the aisle, at least a bit. I

    can appreciate the time you’ve spent reading these comments and replying to almost all of them. I simply ask that you go one step further and actually take our input and work with it for once.